In case you missed our discussion of the pending “Dewhurst Bill,” I’ll give you a moment to read this and this.
This morning chef Daniel Landsberg of Tillman’s sent out a call to arms to his fellow restaurateurs. He says:
I am sure you all are aware of this wine bill dewhurst is going to get passed unless we all contact our state representatives easily by email with the link provided below asking them to be our voice and vote against the bill Texas HB 4813 which states that anyone can bring in a bottle of wine regardless of what type of liquor license you have. This not only will take money out of our pockets, it opens a completely new can of worms of liability and the ability to cut off an intoxicated guest because it is their wine. I do not know if it carries over to catered events, but, can imagine selling a wedding for 200 guests at your venue and they bring in their own wine? Not good. This is a special interest B.S. Back door deal that is exactly what is wrong with politics in the US. What is next? Beer? Alcohol under a certain proof? This is OUR BUSINESS. WE SELL FOOD, WINE AND ALCOHOL. Please do not just discard this email. DO something. 10 minutes can save OUR industry in Texas for the duration of OUR CAREERS. Think about it; we bring them in with the great food, we impress them with the total package, but we make real MONEY with alcohol sales. This has already passed the senate because we did not respond fast enough. Please, help me save our wine programs!
I wrote my representative this morning to voice my opposition. Times are tough enough for restaurants.
Austin sommeliers – double-check your wine lists so Dewhurst can find what he likes – considering the millions of dollars the Tx. Dept of Agriculture has poured (pardon the pun) into the Texas wine industry, maybe he needs to see more local offerings.
I can envision it now, the new accessory for your new Texas Lexus; A WINE COOLER IN THE TRUNK. I would love for every restaurant to be BYOB but I am smart enough to realize it would do great harm to the business. I just called my representative in Austin to vote against it.
Personally I’m looking forward to not getting robbed when I want wine. I understand this is the food industry gravy train, but gimme a break, times are tough for diners too – if restaurants had not been trying to bleed patrons so bad for so long on alcohol this would have never come up. Drop your prices to even 50% mark-up per bottle and I’d call it a compromise.
Greedy restaurants. Hopefully their racket will end soon. The places with a passable wine lists (ie not tillmans) often go over the three times cost tradition anyway. You can follow the same link to support the bill. Go Dewhurst! Let’s get drunk.
I think a reading of the actual language of the bill tells a much different story than is being painted in the above article. Here is the pertinent language:
The holder of a mixed beverage permit, or any officer,
agent, or employee of a holder, may permit a person to possess and
consume [Previous Hit] wine [Next Hit] brought onto the premises by the person. The holder of
a mixed beverage permit may charge the person a corkage fee for the
person’s consumption of [Previous Hit] wine [Next Hit] on the premises and may provide for
service of the [Previous Hit] wine [Next Hit] to the person and the person’s guests. A fee
charged under this subsection is subject to the mixed beverage tax.
Clearly, this does not equate to every restaurant being required to allow BYOB. If a restaurant has liability or profit concerns their option is to maintain their business as currently run. The bill merely allows restaurants that have a liquor license the OPTION to allow BYOB. With that option also comes the right to charge a corkage fee as well. Those corkage fees, aside from taxes, are pure profit since the restaurant did not purchase the wine or utilize any resources to do so. I don’t see that many restaurants are going to be jumping to choose this option. I wish the reporting on this issue was less one sided and more accurately described the real text and effect of the bill.
Dan is correct! This is a very bad bill for restaurant owners. The restaurant business is hard enough as it is. Therefore, we do not need any issues that may drive a wedge between the guest and restaurant owner. This is a special interest bill for David Dewhurst
and Richie Jackson CEO of the Texas Restaurant association. The TRA never even polled its members before they supported the bbill…..Shame on Richie Jackson!!!
@ bmk; not pure profit. replacement of stemware/bar supplies, ware washer hourly wage, chemicals & utilities for washing, wages+employee expenses for busser/waitstaff/management [the byob guest expects the same experience as everyone else, no], air conditioning, lighting, insurance….
I don’t opposed byob, I see the pros/cons of both sides of the issue, and I know, I know “woe is me” it’s the business I chose, and there are restaurants that gouge on their wine lists [buyer beware] but none of it is “pure profit”
They are making a mountain out of a molehill, restaurants that serve only beer/wine are already allowed to offer byob with a corkage fee, this bill merely extends that allowance to restaurants with hard liquor. Those complaining can simply choose to not allow byob, end of problem.
state reps…..STAY OUT OF THE RESTAURANT BUSINESS!!!! YOUR proposed action will put many and I do mean many out of business….then where will high school and college students work..where will cooks and other support staff work…..will it expand our already over burdened welfare rolls and food stamp programs…..get smart and quit meddeling in things you know nothing about.
I’ve posted again on the issue, and have included many comments I’ve received via e-mail from those connected to the industry who would be harmed by the passage of this bill.
Last October I blogged about the decline in sales tax revenue from local restaurants, and things have not gotten better since. By my estimate sales are down overall by 10 – 20% locally.
What does this mean for an employee whose wages depend on their sales? Replace just 2 $60 bottles of wine per shift with 2 $25 corkage fees, and this equates to a decline in tips of over $3,600 per year for that person. On top of the reduced sales due to people chosing to dine at home or order less.
What does this mean for the consumer? As restaurants compete for the elusive dining dollar, conceivably competitive promotions (i.e. – “BYO – No corkage”) could initially increase sales, (and at the same time possibly increase consumption) but to fully cover the lost sales eventually the price of food would have to be increased. So the non-drinking consumer ends up paying a higher cost for those who drink.
There are so many ways to make this more affordable for the consumer, this is just another jaberwocky, political pandering move to once again amend the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Code.
Please fix it instead.
@ Laura, most of us already have a 50% wine cost when you factor in the 14% gross receipts tax that the state gets.
Lola Van seems to have reached a good middle ground. He has a list that makes my mouth (and pocketbook) drool to look at and would seldom consider taking in a wine BYOB there. But he seems to have had an inspiration for those three nights ( tues-thurs) and looks like he is working out ok with it. A good example of leadership. Bravo, Van!
Alfonso, thanks for the props but my situation is somewhat unique and it may not work for every operator.
First, I traded my MB permit for a wine and beer permit about 4 years ago, so I’m legal to allow BYOB. Got tired of paying 14% off the top when 90+% of my alcohol-related beverage sales were wine. Secondly, I’ve got a very winecentric (if thats a word) reputation and clientele with a large percentage that are collectors with home cellars. So it just works for me to cater to them to come in more frequently on slower nights and I can use the business.
I can definitely see why operators with MB permits would want to retain the status quo as it will be a slippery slope once the gate is opened and competitive pressures will force operators to react (allow) to more and more BYOB’ers or lose the potential customers and revenues.
Personally, if I were in their shoes and the bill passes, I wouldn’t fear it, I’d just set policies/limits that make it work positively for your business.
To the customer who calls and wants to BYOB just do want Nancy use to do “Jusy Say No!”
Reagan that is…………not you Nancy N
You scared me.
Our servers at Saturday’s meeting agreed that the new bill will be a large pay cut for them. What is the chance that the customer will tip on what the wine would have sold for. I’m surprised that the great state of Texas wants LESS TAX REVENUE . We pay quite alot of tabc tax every month. Wine is a big money maker for the state and the servers.
Well Al, the Texas Restaurant Association backs it too, kinda sold us out, hmmm?
And I would like to highlight what Van said above, because it is so indicative of the crazy way our liquor laws impact sales prices of wine.
A restaurant (or “club”) called “A” that holds a Mixed Beverage permit (which allows it to serve a martini or cocktail) pays a gross receipts tax of 14% on the sales price. Another, called “B” that holds a Wine and Beer permit, is allowed to charge the guest sales tax instead.
“B” would be able to charge $43 for a bottle, the “A” would have to charge $50 to earn the same net-after-taxes. However in the “B”s case the guest would actually pay $46.55 because sales tax would be added onto the sales price.
But of course the perception to the guest is that “A” is gouging.
Well, as the chronic consumer of Biernat’s 26 ounce Porterhouse, when Big Al speaks, I listen. Even if this bill made sense, the timing in this economy sucks Chardonnay grapes. Merlot can you go?
Amy, what most people don’t realize is the large break even for restaurants. That is the reason so many are failing with the economic downturn. High rent and large payrolls and high food and wine costs make the net operating smaller than most people realize. But thank God for volume. If they take our wine sales away, it will make it even harder for so many that are just making it.
Thanks Rawlins Nichol-Plated!
F Y I
There is a companion bill to 4813 that is SB2523. SB 2523 was waived of its 5 day waiting period before going before the committee yesterday and was presented this morning at 8am. (once a bill is placed on the calender, there is a 5 day waiting period to allow time to have both sides represented if I understand this correctly) This bill has the same verbiage as HB4813. SB2523 was stalled and “has been left pending in committee” thanks to Chris Wells of The Classic Cafe in Roanake. Chris drove overnight to speak on behalf of the no side this morning and offered compelling enough reasons for this bill to be stalled a moment.
FIVE-DAY POSTING RULE SUSPENDED .
Representative Kuempel moved to suspend the five-day posting rule and all
necessary rules to allow the Committee on Licensing and Administrative
Procedures to consider SB 2523.
The motion prevailed.
Tuesday, May 5, 2009 HOUSE JOURNAL — 64th Day 2541
COMMITTEE MEETING ANNOUNCEMENTS
The following committee meetings were announced:
Licensing and Administrative Procedures, 8 a.m. tomorrow, E2.016, for a
public hearing, to consider SB 2523 and posted business.
Amen Al, and Hallelujah Chris! Rawlins, I owe you a little Lavavuluvin’ scotch honey.
Kids are in school, anyone up for a road trip?
And for those who have not yet seen this, the funniest memo ever (thanks Nikki for reminding me, and Thank You John Sharp): http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/shared-blogs/austin/politics/upload/2009/04/sharp_to_dewhurst_try_texas_wi/Document.pdf
that is a funny note Amy. The 8am tomorrow schedule was actually today. We should all go down the next time this comes to committee. The state house of reps publishes the calender each day on their website.
This item and the “Sommeliers: Rise or Fall?” item are intimately connected. If wine-related beverage receipts fall with the passage of this bill, how many restaurants do you think will be willing to pay for highly educated staff? I am very lucky to work in a restaurant that supports my wine education and the wine/ spirits education of every staff member. This requires a substantial investment in terms of time and money. Is it worth it if fewer of our patrons need our expertise? Can we still afford it as our margins continue to shrink? I hope so, but I’m not sure it’s sustainable.
Furthermore, why is wine always the bad guy? The markup on liquor is seldom questioned; no one ever asks to bring in his own bottle of Crown Royal. When was the last time someone wanted to bring in a potato or a bunch of raw spinach and pay an “oven fee” or a “saute fee”? I’m just sayin’…
Wine is a collectable, unlike potatoes or spinach, and so people gather them and want to open them up on special occasions in special places. If a diner wants to bring their special wine into a place that allows it, like Lola, where is the harm? Not an everyday practice. Look, I’m in the wine biz and collect wine. I also (often) drink the stuff off of lists and support the restaurants.
That said, we need to continuously reinforce wine education and wine service. Thank you, dentonfoodie, for your passion and ongoing commitment. And thanks to your place for their commitment. And yes, thanks, Van, for your calmness and your classy response. And your reasonable mark-ups.
I want to thank Al, Amy and Chris Wells for standing up and telling it the way it is. This bill is VERY bad for servers, restaurant managers, restaurant owners and wine sales people. Chris Wells in Roanoke is a hero for going before the committee. If there is another hearing I plan to go fight this bill with all my might. This is nothing more than a deal between Richie Jackson TRA CEO and David Dewhurst….BAD for TEXAS.
As a consumer, I am laughing at the level of panic shown by some of your comments above. I fully support the opportunity to bring my own wine and look forward to doing so in restaurants that would permit it under this bill. If you as an owner choose not to allow it, that is your choice. Times are tough, and if you don’t want to make the necessary adjustments to be competitive in this marketplace, your business will suffer. Whether or not a restaurant allows BYOB has hardly ever been a consideration when our household has chosen where to dine. I view this as a luxury for consumers like me that a few restaurants will ultimately offer.
Unfortunately, the net losers in all of this will likely be those restaurants which currently allow BYOB. This evens their playing field.
There’s no reason to think this bill, if passed, will be a net benefit for the consumer. I have not read the fine print (subject to change in conference committee between House and Senate), but if a consumer thinks they’re gonna be able to bring store-bought wine and thus avoid the typical restaurant mark-up, think again. Corkage fees will go up if in-house wine sales go down. And Amy’s right, food costs will also go up to meet any decline in in-house alcohol sales, meaning non-drinkers who only eat will be subsidizing drinkers. I talked to someone at a restaurant where Dewhurst eats three times a week, near the Capitol, and they are talking $10, $15, $20 cork fees.
Regardless of the scenarios one envisions, the bill likely means a decline in restaurant profit that will have to be accounted for in some way. It is remarkable that the TRA supports this legislation. Check that – it is BEYOND remarkable the TRA supports it. Restaurants who pay dues to be members should demand a change in leadership, starting with the General Counsel of the TRA who has been the point person in support of the bill.
This bill PERMITS the restaurant to allow BYOW. If the restaraunt thinks that BYOW is bad for its business or employees, then don’t permit BYOW. It is about choice and there is no compelling reason to PROHIBIT a restaurant from choosing to allow patrons to bring their own wine.
I do not go out to restaurants much because of the outrageous markups on wine (which, as indicated, are partially a product of outrageous taxes). If this bill passes, I will more frequently eat out, and where i eat will be restaurants that permit BYOW for a reasonable corkage fee. This bill has the potential to increase restaurant revenues on nights that are traditionally less busy (see LOLA, for example). Restaurants that are able to adapt to the change will profit. Restaurants that prefer to continue on with a “business as usual” attitude (at the cost of their patrons) in this economy will perish.
OR, another trend scenario will be more and more places that choose a beer and wine licenses instead of a Mixed Beverage license because of the tax implications.
A 14% gross receipts tax paid on the sales price vs. an 8.25% sales tax added onto the sales price is huge sway. This saves a restaurant $14,000 for every $100,000 in wine sales.
The trade off is no martini’s or hard drinks.
A response to Snark Man, I paid $9,000 for a two year mixed beverage liscese this year. As Amy has stated wine and beer places pay normal sales tax. They also pay less fees. The MB liscense puts us all on a level playing field. We can then compete on quality, service, and price. The chains have taken over Texas dining and the TRA, they can do so because of large marketing budgets. Everyone thinks we drive Ferrarri’s, we simply employ thousands of the best folks in Texas, we drive what runs that day. We do it all for our guests and our integrity. As for the business model, which industry would you like to choose to take awar 20%-30% of our income on the supposition that it will be good for the customer. It will simply help McDonolds and Jack in the Box, because the TRA leadershipis being controlled by the chains. The TRA leader that I faced yesterday was asked if he polled his membership for thier opinion, he mummbled stuttered and never answered the question. I would suggest that he step down or the TRA membership should find another voice. He would not answer the questions asked of him because there is no answer. He was asked if a higher being was behind this legislation and he stuttered, stammered, and said yes. Horrah to the State Reps that asked those questions. Every mamager, server, kitchen staff, dishwasher needs to send thank you note, call, e-mails to Chairman Edmund Kuempel, Charle Garen(One of us), Roland Gutierrez, Mike Hamilton, Delwin Jones(a real Texas straight shooter), Jose Menendez, Chente Quintanilla. These guys had amazing political pressure on thier shoulders. They did the right thing. Chairman Kuempel allways ends his sessions with a cartoon of the day. This day he said “You never quit fighting a gorilla until you the gorilla gets tired”. Thats the battle, I was the only person who spoke in support, not tooting my horn just saying it can’t happen again.(I’m not that good, just lucky) We need to set up a plan for the next meeting.
Chris
Jackson,
Don’t you think that wine and hard liquor drinkers are currently subsidizing non-drinking patrons in many places with the current mark-up policies between food and beverage?
Restaurant Owner Too,
I agree, I’d bring my MB permit back in heartbeat if the state would allow me to pay 14% off the top on hard liquor sales and collect 8.25% on beer and wine sales.
If you wouldnt rip me off with your 300-500% markups maybe I would buy wine off your list. I KNOW what the mailing list prices are for these wines AND I have a good idea what you pay wholesale. Greedy little DB’s. When you see a run of the mill zin priced at Central Market for $20 and then you price it on your list at $80, do you EVER think I will come back to your restaurant? Think again.
This sounds like good legislation to me.
Plese tell me why I’m wrong.
FYI I’m someone who:
1. Eats out with my spouse a couple of times a month
2. Doesn’t go to upscale places but also doesn’t frequent national chains.
3. Usually doesn’t buy beverages (alcoholic or otherwise) when I eat out
4. would not ordinarily pay more than $15 for a bottle of wine at the store.
If this legislation were to pass it measn I just might take a bottle of Yellowtail the next time I go to a place like Big Shucks
To: Restaurant Owner. What is the name of your restaurant? I want to be sure I do not go there by mistake.
Van (at Lola’s) shows that a restaurant can do well and allow corkage, especially if the restaurant knows wine and cares about it.
I go to very few restaurants that do not allow corkage. Since there are not so many in Texas, I eat at more restaurants in California than I do in my home state!
On the rare occasions that I eat at a restaurant that does not allow corkage, I almost never buy wine. If you want my business, restaurant owners, support this bill.
“The restaurant business is hard enough as it is.” Maybe you need to think differently, new policies, open the door to more customers, ones that understand fine wine and how much is should cost and is fair to both parties.
“Please, help me save our wine programs!” – Your wine programs are exactly why I do NOT dine out at establishments that do NOT allow me to bring in a bottle of wine. I am perfectly happy paying a corkage fee and understand you are in business to make money. Another way to look at it, you do not have to hold an inventory of wine, each customer that brings in a bottle of wine pays you $15 or more corkage, all you need to do is wash the glasses, which is given whether or not I bring the wine or you provide it.
“When you see a run of the mill zin priced at Central Market for $20 and then you price it on your list at $80, do you EVER think I will come back to your restaurant?” I agree 100%
People have no idea what it costs to operate a restaurant. So many are struggling as it is, not to mention the waitstaff. This would really knock the wind out of an already limping industry.
How can there be support in the legislature for expanding BYOB but no support for a statewide streamlining of the draconian patchwork of state and local beer/wine/liquor laws?
@ tjh – There are many nuances to vintner’s wines, are you absolutely sure that the appellation and year were identical? Different mixes of grapes within one variety can also result in wide price swings, perhaps one was a “Vinter’s Reserve” vs. their more common wine.
Those small neighborhood places where they have to ask you for a membership – they are licensed as clubs and are NOT ALLOWED TO PURCHASE THEIR LIQUOR, BEER, OR WINE WHOLESALE. They pay as much as you would at Goody Goody, Sigel’s or Centennial. Because that is who they are forced to purchase from by state law.
Another goofy fluke of the liquor laws that ends up costing the consumer, with the perception that the restaurant is the one ripping them off.
And we don’t just wash the glasses, in fact we spend annually on important things like waiter training to ensure responsible service of a legalized drug. Our liability insurance with the additional of alcohol triples, that responsibility does not go away with BYO.
Perhaps you missed the post earlier that explained how depending on a place’s licensing effect sales prices of wines, with the state the only one collecting the difference, not the restaurant.
For the small neighborhood “club”, who cannot buy wholesale and who turns 14% of each sale over to the state, and add to that reductions in dining out dollars – it’s a killer time to be in business.
Ugh, and a week until Franchise taxes are due.
This doesn’t appear to have been addressed: How does the Dewhurst bill force mixed beverage holders to allow BYOB? It seems that it just allows them to permit BYOB if they so choose.
Is the fear that once it is allowed, everyone with a mixed beverage permit will be effectively forced to permit it or risk having customers stolen by other mixed beverage establishments that go BYOB? In sort of a airlines fare war race to the bottom kind of scenario?
JG this is the exact point I was making and not one of those who is against this new legislation has addressed this aspect.
What Stefan and tgh said above.
To: Restaurant Owner. What is the name of your restaurant? I want to be sure I do not go there by mistake. I’VE BEEN THERE AND AM NOT GOING BACK. PLUS I’M NOT BUYING YOUR POOR WINES MARKED UP THREE TIMES RETAIL. ICED TEA PLEASE. Get a clue about wine pricing and a quality wine list from a customer perspective and maybe we can talk.
Van (at Lola’s) shows that a restaurant can do well and allow corkage, especially if the restaurant knows wine and cares about it. YES AND THANK YOU TO ALL OF THE SIMILAR ESTABLISHMENTS IN TEXAS.
Rinse and repeat – I’m not walking in the door to your restaurant because of this very issue. You might actually gain some customers. If you are breaking even because of your wine list something is probably wrong with your business model.
I have questions for wino,foodie and potential customer…..what other business or store lets people bring in products that were purchased elsewhere into their business?
If you don’t like the wine list or the restaurants wine pricing then go somewhere wlse. Maybe it is you that has no clue.
**If you don’t like the wine list or the restaurants wine pricing then go somewhere wlse. Maybe it is you that has no clue.**
I just don’t go at all. I would spend lots of money at these restaurants if I could bring my $100 bottle of wine. Clearly I’m a minority.
How many people chose to bring in a a $12 bottle of wine when the corkage charge is $20? Not too many. Don’t be afraid.
Iced tea please.
I work as a waiter and bartender. I don’t want to be a wine cork policeman. Enough about business, this bill’s hasty trip through the Senate doesn’t consider safeties and responsibilities of both the restaurant owner and the customer. I will assurdley get a call from the police if I over-serve someone and they drive and kill someone (heaven forbid). Can I cut someone off from their own supply? I don’t believe the majority of people will abuse bringing their own wine, however, there are those few that will; not only endangering themselves but others as well. I’m talking open alcohol container, Public Intoxication, and Ohh Yeah Texas already rates amongst the highest in DWI. Bottom line is this bill hasn’t been thought out enough to have made it so quickly through the Senate.
Have we all seen this?
http://budurl.com/qdg2
Lordy where to begin…well as an employee of a national chain(that consequently supports BYOW)I can see both sides of this issue. Vann has surrendered his MB license and chosen to be as “winecentric” as can be. He is an exception(who has my favorite and BEST cellar in Dallas btw)to most of the restauranteurs around. For larger operations with large liquor and wines sales the results could be devastating. As a sommelier(I have my credentials LOL) who has worked for some of the top restaurant programs in Dallas, the potential losses to wine programs could be the end business for many restaurants. Knowing Dewhurst as I do(there are only so many restaurants in Austin)he has a strong passion for wine and I understand his commitment to his cause. The wines he drinks are exceptional and in many cases just unattainable by the average restaurant. That said the potential losses for his server on a typical $400 tab with a hundred dollar tip, would become a $150-$200 tab with a $50-$60 tip. He’s just one guest. And I clearly understand that he and the other collectors are few and far between, but as most of them(well the top 10%)and the other Jordan and Silver Oak drinkers are the people who drive our high end wine sales($100/btl or more) Medium sized wine program restaurants may just as well get rid of their high end wines because quite frankly with the markups required to pay embedded taxes and other taxes for just having the wine in inventory, consumers of those wines will simply bring them in. Great wine programs that carry wines one cannot otherwise procure(gees the wines I would drink from Lola’s cellar had I the money LOL) should theoretically should be fine but then you’re left to chance because you’ll still lose lots of sales. If I owned a restaurant right now I would be VERY scared. If I was a sommelier in a privately owned restaurant I would be in fear of losing my job due to loss of sales. The loss of the sommelier is also due to the fact that most restaurants just don’t have the position. If I were a restaurantuer would I be willing to add another 40-90k position to my payroll(though the potential sales can justify the cost but that’s a business plan thing-Vann to my knowledge is his own sommelier)? Especially in this economy and with the prospect of my patrons being able to bringing their own wine? It’s a slippery slope that I would just as soon avoid. I’m against the bill and have talked to Dewhurst about it. I’ve sent my emails and lodged my complaints with the appropriate people. That said the sommelier in me is excited at the prospect of tasting Dewhurst’s verticle of Harlan. The problem is that rarely will people be bringing me their Grand cru burgundies and blue chip bordeaux. I suppose it’s going to become a matter to take up with our accountants and figure out how to make this work with our individual restaurants. California has made it work so I know Texas could as well. It’s just not going to be pretty watching the aftermath and count the bodies of the impending restaurant slaughter. *gasp*@ amy your explanation of a restaurant “A” and B” is eyeopening for most guests. Taxation differences are so silly (and real) that after talkng to the former owner of a local indochine restaurant, she she says she was over the taxation and never would have carried such a large selelction of wine and liquor had she known how much she would have to pay. I feel her pain and the pain of many of our fellow restaurantuers.@ the anti- price-gougers. I completely agree that wine prices are too high. It’s always a breath of fresh air seeing wine prices at Lola and other equally fair priced restaurants(I miss CA. The problem lies with taxes and in many cases corporate programs that require certain percentages for all pricing. I’ve always suggested to the powers that be that we maintain reasonable and fair pricing, and always added in the deals and steals for the consumer. I always did my best to work with guests when they queried that a wine was too overpriced. It’s what a good sommelier does.We want everyone to drink the best wine for your buck(er at least we should, mean people take note). @ Jackson I haven’t heard any quotes of possible corkage fees(I work blocks from the Capital)but am comforted that every restaurant can decide on not only participation but in corkage fees as well. I presume my finance guys at corporate are already crunching the numbers to make this work for not only our guests but for us as well. @ dentonfoodie I like your thoughts on both liquor and beer(I would after all like to enjoy a great boutique beer or my favorite Lillet Blonde that most people don’t offer) In summation I’ll chat up friends and colleages and see if we can come up with some solutions that work for both restaurants AND guests and see if we can find a middle ground. It sounds as if with some changes to taxation levels we could make this a more level playing field(Dewhurst is a reasonable man as is the TRA. It could be a reasonable trade?
@Van, sorry for the misspell. I meant no offense.
Cellarmaster, your comments are interesting. Again from a consumer prospective the restaurant biz in Texas seems to have a taxation/supply issue that is separate from the BYOW issue. Maybe a different battle should be fought?
AS JG and bmk note above – If the bill doesn’t force restaurants to allow BYOW (only PERMIT it at the restaurants’ discretion) then won’t the end result be some restaurants will and some won’t? I know where I would chose to go but more than likely the great majority of restaurant customers won’t know and or care about the BYOW option. The net result could be positive for all sides.
To reiterate what Stefan posted…could all of you restaurant owners that are fighting this tooth and nail please post the names of your restaurants so that I never accidentally darken your doors and give you one red cent of my money now or in the future?
Thanks in advance.
Sure sweetie, just give me your name, phone number and address and I’ll deliver it right to you. Hmmm?
Cellarmaster, great stuff and you are a level head. I would buy a ticket to see your conversation with Dewhurst. I do see two clear fights: BYOW and taxation v supply. Both arguments are fueled by long-time frustrations with the TABC and the silly hillbilly wet/dry laws of Texas. However, I find it repulsive that one politician with a wine collection is, almost single handedly, changing the law. One, I daresay, can afford a steep corkage fee and a generous tip. And, he couldn’t have picked a worse time to do this.
I would like to hear from some servers—do most people tip on the full price of a bottle of wine? I do if the bottle is $150 or less. Then again, I don’t buy wine in restaurants above that price point and I, a former waitress, am aware how a server makes a living. I worked in a wine bar, La Cave for all of you geezers. Our situation was different: we were a retail store in the back, you could bring a bottle out into the restaurant, and we’d pop it open for $1 corkage (it was “Red/White/Rose 1976”). It chapped our sasses because not only did we open and serve the wine, we walked the uneducated customer through the cellar and urged them to try a new wine. However, even when customers picked a bottle from our list, they tended to not tip on the full price of the bottle.
Here’s another tip question: how many customers tip on the bottom line which includes the tax? I’m “guilty.” Once again, I do it because I am somewhat educated on restaurants costs v prices.
Thanks to all of you for participating in this discussion. And to the frustrated consumers demanding the name of the restaurants I say, for the first time in my life of blog hell, I am sure the TABC is reading blogs across the state. I’m sure any restaurateur that prints a negative comment will get an audit that will set them back on their heels. The TABC is a bunch of small-minded, retaliatory hillbillies with guns. Carry on. (conversation, not guns)
@ Restaurant Owner Too…if you can think of a way I can exchange that information with you short of posting it on a blog viewable by every spammer on the net I’d be more than happy to do it. Let me know.
Did Mr. Dewhurst consider the loss of tax revenue for the state of Texas? In California the liquor tax is not included in the price of wine as in Texas. The 14% is built into our wine prices. That is why in California the prices should be about 14% less on the wine list. In California the wine and liquor and beer and food is taxed as a whole on the check. In addition , when I purchased the liquor for the restaurant I worked for in California, I was able to buy from the wholesalers. In Texas we must buy from a retailer. The combined cost of product was much better for the restaurant. How will the shortfall of taxes be made up?
Way off topic but….
I’m wondering if the the Republican Social Conservative base know that the lt. gov. has a wine collection.
Cellarmaster writes, “That said the potential losses for his server on a typical $400 tab with a hundred dollar tip, would become a $150-$200 tab with a $50-$60 tip.”
How many people that will use BYOW now currently pay for $250 bottles at dinner? I would gather relatively few. Instead of losing a tip, maybe the waiter will increase his revenue b/c more people will be coming into his restaurant.
Also, why waiters should get paid based on the $ amount of a bottle of wine is beyond me. I know it has become ingrained in dining etiquette to tip based on total $ amount, but is there really any more service involved with a $400 wine than a $40 wine?
Al biernat writes, “Did Mr. Dewhurst consider the loss of tax revenue for the state of Texas?”
Somebody considered it and decided it would more likely increase tax revenue. Don’t ask me how they came to that conclusion.
http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/81R/fiscalnotes/pdf/SB02523E.pdf
Is it any harder to present tacos or a steak?
Al, I am not a fan of the tipping system in general. Tipping (as opposed to the restaurant paying the wage) is as stupid as prohibiting BYOW.
What BYOW said about tipping.
I have never served either but I’ll hunchthat it may actually be harder to serve tacos than a steak.
Greedy restauranteurs (like the “Restaurant Owner” who is afraid to name his restaurant) will never get my money. Whether this bill passes or not, I will never frequent a restaurant unless it EITHER has a wine list containing good wines at reasonable prices (i.e. no more than double retail) OR allows BYOB. And I will never pay $59 to drink a $13.99 bottle of bland industrial swill (that Restaurant Owner probably got on closeout for $7.99). My first choice is always to eat at a restaurant like Lola, where I can choose between BYOB and ordering a bottle from the list that I know will be terrific (and a good value as well)….
I would like to hear an answer to Tim’s question about liablity. How are restaurant owner going to police comsumption on BYOB bottles? A customer will feel (and rightly sot) that if they brought the wine, they have the right to drink as much of it as they want. What’s to stop customers from overdrinking and driving?
Let’s take the tipping arguments here and stay on the BYOB.
Al: Get a bus and we’ll all go down to Austin. We’ll all BYOB and I’ll bring the tacos. Serious.
Clara,
They are still in your place of business and no one has the right to consume as much alcohol as they want regardless of if they bought it off the list or brought it in (TABC rules). The same rules apply to alcohol service to BYOB’ers. If I or the server thinks the guest has had enough, we can and will cut them off. That is the regulation and our call, period.
As far as liability, every operator with a Mixed Beverage or Beer and Wine permit carries a large liability policy as part of their umbrella coverage.
@Clara, its a sad note but the alcoholic who only drinks half the bottle in the restaurant under the observation of the TABC certified servers is likely to chug the balance of the bottle once they get to the car. After the car wreck, the lawyer who sues the restaurant on behalf of the client who exceeded the legal blood/alcohol limit is not likely to mention the drinking that took place once the customer and the bottle left the restaurant.
as a licensed tabc seller I would imagine that the TABC would empower the individual licensed seller(be it a bartender, server or even manager to enforce and follow the law in regards to consumption. We are not legally allowed to serve an intoxicated person as we all know. I would imagine that you be hard pressed to find a server willing to risk his job and face potential jailtime to pad his check with a minimal corkage fee(he would on the other hand if he were selling a $100+ bottle of wine. At that price point he stands to get tipped $20 for every bottle he serves so it kinda behooves the waiter to turn a blind eye, not that I would ever stray from the arm of the law, nor would I EVER encourage someone to break it-I’m just saying I’ve worked in restaurants for well over a decade a seen a few things).I wouldn’t be concerned with liability. My current restaurant has a policy of placing all opened wines in a SEALED(yes with sticky stuff and all) bags so that consumers don’t leave with open containers. Go legal department. @BYOW..well there probably shouldn’t be any more service with a $400 bottle versus a $40 bottle, but I will say as a floor sommelier if I have 15 bottles of wine on various tables and only two are $400 bottles, whose wine do you think I’m going to be pouring. And your server with two or three other tables, one with iced tea and the other with White Zin..who gets the most attention? And beyond that I dont think this bill is really for the every day consumer quite honestly, that said because I can’t imagine the average person taking the time to go buy a $30-$40 bottle of wine just to have to pay another $30 per bottle for a corkage fee..It certainly wont be conducive for the Yellowtail fans or Value oriented wine consumer to pay more for corkage than the actual bottle. I think this really is more for the collectors and for the luxury wine drinkers, who consequently do buy these wines(it’s odd that in this awful economy the world of luxury wine seems to be on sale! I haven’t seen auction pricing this low for almost a decade…Van I hope you’re stocking up secretly LOL). I’ll call around some of the top tier restaurants in NY and CA and ask about corkage fees to see what the norm is and get back to everyone.
@Cellarmaster…While I am certain that you are very good at what you do, I am a very experienced wine drinker and do not need help to fill my and my guests’ glasses and do not need help picking out a wine unless I am unfamiliar with the cuisine being served. In fact, 95% of the servers/somms out there do not appear to have a clue about wine service. most are just interested in keeping the glasses full (regardless of whether the patron requests more wine) and popping another bottle (Cha-ching).
BTW, auction prices are VERY strong for older vintages. Younger vintages, not so much.
BTW, regardless of whether this bill passes or not, I would bery much be in favor of reforming the antiquated TX liquor laws that raise the price of alc/wine/beer to consumers and put money into the distributors and retailers pockets. That will be one helluva fight in the legislature.
So we’ll start with Veritas NYC(Timothy Kopec’s list is NUTS!) who doesn’t allow corkage with the reservationist saying “because our wine is really expensive”(though I hope she meant extensive). Per Se cannot be on the current list and a staggering $90 per bottle, 3 max. Le Bernardin, Daniel, or Del Friscos do NOT allow corkage. Asiate $25, Balthazar $35, Craft NYC $45. Aureole NYC $50 per, 2 max and can’t be on current list. Aureole Vegas $35 per, 2 max. Fleur de Lys Vages allows(forgot to ask price). Fleur de Lys San Fran $35 per, 2 max, waived at the discression of GM(hmm padoras box).Michael Mina San Fran $35 for first 2, $70 per after that and none can be on the current list. Bacar is $20 per but waived if you buy one off the list, Boulevard is $35 and waived with purchase(hmm nor sure about the waiving, i don’t like parades jk). Napa had the lowest with Tra Vigne saying no corkage. When I asked about a limit she says” as much as you can drink!” I love that place. Though Bouch charges $20 per, 2 max(not suprisingly I called French Laundry and couldn’t get anyone on the phone(i’ll send Paul Roberts a message on facebook). Last one was Charlie Trotter Chicago with $50 for 750ml(she specified gees) with 2 max and vintage cannot be on current winelist. I think there is enough here to work with . No one seems to make this particularly easy(am I really going to research what a list has and go buy my wine? Hardcore value guest though a steep corkage would really scare them away anyways…)I guess they’ll have to seek out the lone no charge bring whatever place. Good Luck!
AmyS’s and the other over-the-top reactions (and wine prices) by “restaurant owners” here are exactly the reason why we take our dining dollars to Lola and elsewhere instead. And, to Suze last weekend, with our ‘99 Jaboulet Hermitage La Chapelle!
@ BYOW you are correct about actual hammer price of older vintages being strong. I suppose rather just just reading projections in catalogs I should follow up and read the actual hammer pricing( I don’t actually buy so that’s a LOT of extra reading as I’m in NO way involved any any auction scene, I just like to see whats out and available..I’ll start reading the results rather than the catalogs:sounds like a better system!). The collecors are typically my favorite guests as at that point we don’t have to talk basics we talk talk vintages and what we actually enjoy and what has opened our eyes..Many years ago I had the fortune of serving a young SMU student(21) whos father was a major collector in OK. After stories of the various wines( multiple older vintages and knew his vintages well back to 1900(his descriptions of the various 59’s he had tasted in a verticle were particularly stupifying). The one thing I certainely understand is that this is an endless journey, but one I LOVE to share with outher people, I’ve been VERY fortunate to know the people I know and taste the wines I’ve tasted and never forget that.Now to see about the legislature…
It sounds like whatever this commenting group has disagreements about, we are all somewhat on the same page re Texas Beer/Wine/Liquor laws and the TABC – the laws are a crazy backwards patchwork and the TABC is a bunch of small-minded, retaliatory hillbillies with guns.
Now, will anyone who thinks the Dewhurst bill is a horrible idea please address the question of how it will force mixed beverage license holders to allow BYO? Again, the text appears to permit mixed beverage holders to allow BYO if they wish. It does not appear to force them to allow BYO.
To employee500
Calling tthose who take an active role in perserving their liveliehood greedy examplifies your lack of understanding of what is at stake. These restaurant owners have enabled me to work my way through college. If you don’t have anything to constructive to add to this discussion then stay out of it. Where are you employed? Employee500?
Whether iced tea or caymus I roll the dice on personal service everytime over check size anyday.
25,000-33,000 tabc tax monthly—25,000-35,000 sales tax monthly—23,000 payroll tax monthly—20,000 franchise tax yearly—85,000 property tax yearly—33% personal IRS taxes —and you call restauranteurs greedy?
As a journalist student, I have done communications work for various non-profit agencies– they rely heavily on community businesses like restaurants for support. Meals on Wheels in particular. Meals on Wheels has been shutting down locations across America because of the economy (rising food and gas prices). If this current economy, has taught us anything it is that everything is connected. If restauranteurs go down, Meals on Wheels suffers all because connoisseurs want to save a few bucks on a bottle of booze. That is greed. http://www.mowaa.org
I raised a question near the beginning of the thread. Never really got an answer. So I am going to revise and repeat it:
I’m someone who:
1. Eats out with my spouse a couple of times a month
2. Doesn’t go to upscale places but also doesn’t frequent national chains. Likes neighborhood joints. A $30 check is a big one. I’d consider $50 huge as in celebrating a birthday/anniv.
3. Usually doesn’t buy beverages (alcoholic or otherwise) when I eat out. So if I were to BYOB a sale won’t be lost.
4. would not ordinarily pay more than $15 for a bottle of wine at the store.
5. Thinks a corkage fee is about the silliest thing I have ever heard. That’s like charging for a napkin.
This bill sounds like good legislation to me even if it’s origins are kind of fishy.
Plese tell me why I’m wrong. Why should I not call my state rep next week and ask him to support it.
For what it’s worth I’ll add an example of how BYOW is likely to work for me in practice.
We’ll grab a $5 bottle of wine and our own corkscrew. We’ll head to the local BBQ joint with counter service. They serve beer but not wine. We’ll order a couple of 6.99 plates. Then we’ll open our wine. Probably pour it into plastic cups (which I’d be happy to bring along with my corkscrew).
We’ll enjoy our aprox $20 meal. And none of you complaining about BYOW would lose a nickle.
@SGTM, What about the owner of the BBQ joint who now misses the sale of a round of beverages to your table? And the manager, whose bonus is figured on profits (which disappeared when you brought your own wine to his restaurant).
Gastronome,
See #3 on the 3:32pm post. Don’t tend to buy beverages when I eat out. Drink water.
To try and put a little humor in this: One reason I don’t buy beverages is my bev of choice is caffiene free diet cola. Most places don’t carry this. Just regular diet cola. If I were lt gov I’d not be interested in a BYOW bill, I’d be pushing thru a BYO Caffiene Free/Diet Cola bill.
Sounds good to me: you aren’t wrong, your just off target. You are not seeing the economic impact this bill could have on restaurants that rely on wine sales in order to operate. A corkage fee is anything but silly. Well, maybe in a BBQ joint it would be but in a restaurant that supplies glasses and servers it is an appropriate charge for service. The cost of the napkin has already been figured into the price you paid for your ribs.
What if they sell Mr. Pibb, can I bring a Dublin Dr Pepper? Oh wait, if its a BBQ joint that sells Pibb then its out of business anyway. Hmmmm… what about Pepsi vs. Coke?
I work in the wine industry and sell to restaurants. This bill could affect not only jobs in the restaurant business but also jobs in the wine distributing business. If it passes most likely retailers will have fewer options than they currently have so restaurants will have more exclusives. Most wineries have a restaurant/retail mix that they aim for. That might change a little and no one will be able to buy the better wines except at restaurants.Also it is unbelievable that people will complain about a 2.5 to three time markup on wine, when a glass of tea cost 3 cents a soda 5, domestic beer cost 68cents. What is the markup of the shoes you are wearing and the watch on your wrist. If you look at it reasonably outrageous markups of 300% is low compared to the markups of almost everything we buy.
I suppose I’ll have to voice my support to my representative about this bill since no one on the anti BYOB/BYOW side can explain how a bill that purports only to allow BOYB will in fact force BOYB on mixed beverage permit holders.
@sgtm Restaurant owners will have to make up lost revenue from lost alcohol sales. Your $6.99 bbq plate will now cost a few bucks more for you and everyone else who don’t buy beverages while the people who do drink recieve all the benefit.
@jg Let me try to explain. BYOB will be forced upon all mixed beverage permit holders because of the competition in the market. This will create an unfair standard of industry that all will be forced to follow. AKA Big chains can take Dewhurst up on his bill and make up the difference in customer volume while the smaller restaurants go under because they rely on this revenue. Small business owners are the foundation of the American economy. Dewhurst Bill = rise in unemployment.
If you don’t believe me read the statistics the big-chain PR reps and lobbyists have cooked up.
http://tinyurl.com/c9ne8t
That survey and press release are head scratchers. How they come to the conclusion in the press release based on the statistics provided in the survey is nonsensical.
@tim…maybe restaurants will make up for lost revenue by attracting more diners to their restaurants with creative marketing based on BYOW.
Under current law can a restraurant offer BYOW if it wants too?
Finally. So, right now, if you 1) do not have an alcohol permit or 2) have a wine beer permit, you can choose to offer BYO, or not.
But if you have a Mixed Beverage permit, you cannot choose to offer BYO. You can’t.
Dewhurst bill will allow Mixed Beverage permit holders to choose to allow BYO, or not.
Dewhurst bill opponents think that many Mixed Beverage holders, particularly large chains, will decide to offer BYO, and this will effectively force all Mixed Beverage holders to offer BYO to compete.
It looks like the real question is whether you think the Dewhurst bill oppnents are correct about that competition assumption. Frankly, if a chain offers BYO, and say, Al’s and Sevy’s don’t, I’m not going to pick a chain over Al’s or Sevy’s, because the food isn’t the same. If I want Sevy’s food I have to go to Sevy’s.
So I don’t understand the fear that your customers will desert you in order to go somewhere else and bring their own hooch.
@JG: Quaint optional customs often lead to unintended consequences. Look at the thread on tips – once a nod by the customer to the waiter for prompt service, they have become such an integral part of the billing process that the restrauteur can now pay the server 1/2 of minimum wage and the IRS presumes a certain level of tip income on the part of the waiter. You effectively get two bills at the end of the meal, one for the food and an unwritten one for the service. Amy, Al and the others are trying to show the logical negative effects of the Dewhurst Bill to those who are not big chains and we should be asking ourselves if this is where we want things to go. One thing you can be certain of is that if they thought the bill would be good for restaurants like theirs (small, one of a kind, owner operated, mid to upper level) thier comments here would be all in favor of it.
I have a little place that I eat at from time to time.
They sell wine by the glass but does not seem like they sell much. If 20 folks are in there from what I recall 3 or 4 with a glass.
So I could ask them if they would let me byow.
Have you guys ever tried Nutella?
Man, I’ve recently developed a slight addiction to the stuff.
How often to you really see anyone taking their own wine into a restaurant for dinner. Not all that often. Otherwise the wine shops would all be very behind this bill because they would be seeing a huge increase in wine sales to people heading off for dinner. Most people just don’t do that including me. If I want wine with dinner I will most times order off the wine list. In 60 years, I have only taken with with me once. Me thinks there is much ado about not much going on here.
I am not surprised at the uproar by the restaurants..you have had it your way for way to long..most states allow BYOB..it will force the weaker food places out and mean better product at the remainder..this reminds of me of all the whinning when the state allowed its residents to buy wine direct from Wineries out of state..the world did not come to an end, everyone adjusted..as for tipping, I tip 20% on the food but not the wine, that tip 10%.
Do any of you restaurant haters realize that besides the US government, RESTAURANTS employ the highest number of workers in the United States economy? I don’t know what you all do for a living, but if we restauranteurs, servers, chefs, cooks, dishwashers, busboys, hosts and owners do not have a job WE WON’T BE SPENDING MONEY IN YOUR BUSINESSES EITHER and not by choice, but because we are unemployed. Think about that for a while because if we go out of business you can drink your yellow taxi at TACO BELL. Speak about things you know about and, like mamma used to say, if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.
I’ve not seen much discussion about something that seems in-your-face obvious to me…
none of the restaurant folks seem to acknowledge a very clear fact – that other states like NY, FL, CA, GA, etc have allowed for corkage (at the option of the restaurant) for YEARS and the restaurant business in those states is doing fine.
Anyone care to respond to that with a logical argument?
Dear G. Bertram, As Cellarmaster explained above, when other restaurants in other states allow corkage, they make it expensive and you must follow their rules. The high end restaurants do so because wine sales are a big part of making a profit. My restaurant breaks even if it doesn’t generate large volume. Wine sales amount to 30% of the total sales. When a steakhouse has a 41% food cost and a 40% overall beverage cost,which includes the wine sales it might bring 12%-114% to the net operating profit. Some restaurants only have a 32% food cost. The best quality and generous portions cost a lot to put on the plate. Everything helps to make it a business and not a hobby.If a restaurant eliminates linen, or Empire bread on the table, or crystal stemware ,to name a few,they still can make money. If you take away something , you must compensate somewhere else.
That is 12%-14% not 114%– SORRY
@al biernat – “Dear G. Bertram, As Cellarmaster explained above, when other restaurants in other states allow corkage, they make it expensive and you must follow their rules.”
Yes and if the bill were to pass you could do the same. Ultimately the AMOUNT of customers who would BYOB is SMALL especially if corkage charges are involved. We don’t BYOB all the time even when we go to restaurants that allow it. Another part of this admittedly higher-end scenario is that even when we BYOB we will also buy a bottle off of a reasonably priced wine list.
Finally,the repeat business you could gain from these scenarios might just offset concerns about your profits.
@Just another customer,I appreciate your comments . Last time we allowed a customer to bring in wine, he carried in 5 bottles for a party of 6. We decanted all of them in crystal decanters, lined up 5 rolls of crystal glasses and had our wine steward pouring them throughout the evening. To be honest they sat there all evening and got upset when we told them about a modest corkage and did not tip the servers except on the food portion. If this law does pass, I hope others will show the same courtesy as you have mentioned.We would love to make special occasion exceptions, if the customers would not get upset if we apply the proper corkage to the bill and PLEASE take care of the staff that is taking care of your party.
Al,
First of all, you are an amazing restaurateur with an incredible restaurant and deserve to be successful(profitable). Like Just Another Customer said and what my specific point is – other restaurants in other states who have the same rules (actually this bill caps the number of bottles a guest may bring at a total of 2)which say that you as the owner can choose if you want to allow or not, choose to charge or not charge a corkage fee, set the fee at whatever amount you would like…restaurants in other states that have been doing this for years and have businesses that are thriving. Most would tell you that they very rarely get anyone asking to bring in wine. (I worked at a very high-end steakhouse in Florida for two years and only had 2 parties ever bring in their own wine and other servers did not have many either). I think this is scary on the surface to all the steakhouses in Texas, but as in other states, it would turn out to be something that is not really an issue
Congratulations restauranters. The bill died in committee. I guess my dining $ will continue not to go to Al Biernat’s, Fearing’s and the other restaurants that shat their pants out of fear of change. Good luck with the same old, same old in this economy. Would not be surprised to see some heavy hitters fail.